AMY GOODMAN: You succeeded in preventing his deportation. GAVIN HOOD: Thats exactly right. AMY GOODMAN: Were going to leave it there, and I want to thank you all so much for being with us, Katharine Gun, the whistleblower; Observer journalists at the time, Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy; and Gavin Hood, who is the director of Official Secrets, the story of Katharine Gun revealing the lies that led to the Iraq War on both sides of the ocean, in Britain and the United States, and led to so many deaths. After the case was dropped I did some media for 24 hours and then I immediately decided to run away and hide and not pursue the story any more. The Whistleblower Who Almost Stopped the Iraq Invasion Gun is not active on social media and occasionally participates in small-scale conferences and discussions pertaining to politics. But, you know, it. MARTIN BRIGHT: OK, youre making me feel really bad about going to work for him now. I think our problem now, and I think this applies on both sides of the Atlantic, is that we have populist politicians for whom that doesnt matter. I hope, when shes ready for this story, she will. If you are a journalist, check and double-check your sources. Ed Vulliamys character, played by Rhys Ifans in the film, says, you know, he effing caved at the time when his country needed him most. Katharine Gun & Martin Bright Interview - Official Secrets Now, that doesnt mean we shouldnt try to hold them to account. And then, on Tuesday, they called me in, and I went in. KATHARINE GUN: No, she hasnt. [11], The case came to court on 25 February 2004. "[15], In September 2019 Ken Macdonald, the former director of public prosecutions, said the case against Gun was not dropped in order to stop the Attorney General's advice on the legality of the Iraq War from being revealed. I had had my own story on the fabrication of the weapons of mass destruction, the existence of a shadow intelligence-cooking agency within the Pentagon, which we at The Observer had for five months before Sy Hersh, with great respect to Sy, published it in The New Yorker. . I mean, no ones going tono crocodile tears over that. [5] Gun heard no more of the email, and had all but forgotten about it until Sunday 2 March, when she saw it reproduced on the front page of The Observer newspaper. In 2003, Gun was working as a translator of Mandarin at the government intelligence agency, GCHQ, in Cheltenham. ED VULLIAMY: But my point is not against Mr. Ahmed. By Ben Davies BBC News Online political staff at the TUC in Brighton There is something about Katharine Gun that makes her seem an unlikely candidate for whistleblowing. Whistleblower Katharine Gun and journalist Martin Bright are interviewed for their new movie Official Secrets for the film's LFF screening. We still dont know who Frank Koza is, or hes still not given a public interview about about what went on. Her life story is depicted in the new film Official Secrets. In Part 2 of our discussion, we speak with Katharine Gun; the British journalists who reported on Guns revelations in The Observer newspaper, Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy; and Gavin Hood, director of Official Secrets.. So, in the film, when the director of public prosecutions says to Ben Emmerson, trying to wiggle out of it, Listen, it wasnt my decision to prosecute. Thats actually true. And she hadnt said why she had resigned. [6] Gun had previously been unaware of GCHQ, later saying that "I didn't have much idea about what they didI was going into it pretty much blind. I mention those lines about working for the people rather than the government. AMY GOODMAN: What was it called? KATHARINE GUN: It was GCHQ internal security, yeah. The film, Official Secrets, comes out officially at the end of August. It was like watching a case that was very similar to my own. Guns leak was perhaps the last example of whistleblowing that involved a red telephone box and a photocopier, rather than downloads. Im Amy Goodman. KATHARINE GUN: No, nothing atwell, they said they were arresting me on suspicion of breaking the Official Secrets Act. Initially, Gun decided to teach Mandarin Chinese in Britain. Koza's email requested aid in a secret operation to bug the United Nations offices of six nations: Angola, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Chile, Guinea, and Pakistan. Now, what we were doing when we were breaking this story was we were attempting to show that our governments had lied to us. I mean, thisI dont want this to sound sanctimonious. MARTIN BRIGHT: But once everyone did, there waswe knew that there was somethingthere was something going on. They called for your documents. When he didnt come out, I was panicking, you know, and I ran inside. For example, youre racing to the hospital with your wife. And he didnt come back out again. And that was it. Gun is on Mondays episode of the Guardian podcast Today in Focus, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. AMY GOODMAN: This is the NSA guy who wrote the memo. I mean, youre talking about the editorial leadership of The Observer, the editor-in-chief. The difference, I think, is that hereand your program and your viewers are testimony to thisyou have an opposition. It doesnt matter if you catch them out in a lie, because they dont care, because they lie as a matter of course, and they change what they say from day to day. Gun was outraged after she learned - as part of her job with GCHQ - that the United States wanted . AMY GOODMAN: Ed Vulliamy, you were the U.S. correspondent for The Observer. I think the number isand forgive me, I should have the figurethree-and-a-half thousand British and American soldiers, 37,000 wounded. Why did you choose to do this film? Ben Emmerson is. At the time, as I well remember, the paper was split in response to the talk of war. ED VULLIAMY: Thank you. When asked by Salon how it felt to see a famous actress act out her life for an audience . But on the other hand, its just a deeply personal story aboutand I hope Katharine will forgive me saying thisabout an ordinary person, like one of us, who does something extraordinary. Well, extremely. Shes out. "[12] In May 2019 The Guardian stated the case was dropped "when the prosecution realised that evidence would emerge that even British government lawyers believed the invasion was unlawful. And as Martin has just said, and as Katharine put it so well in the film, you know, wars, unlike football and basketball games, do not end when the whistle blows. Gun thinks she might speak out more considering the current state of political affairs and massive citizen involvement in sociopolitical issues. Her story, which reveals what a country will do when it wants war and claims it does not, is told in an updated book and a major motion picture soon to be released Official . We didnt talk about politics much. Much of the news desk was opposed. There is a Guardian Live preview screening with Katharine Gun, Gavin Hood and Martin Bright on 12 October. Just trying to figure out what to do next. Some of the information that would have been revealed at her trial, in particular Lord Goldsmiths conflicting arguments as to the legality of the invasion, did not fully emerge until the publication of the report of the Chilcot inquiry in 2016. Sorry, no pun intended, Katharine. With me, it was this. One question that recurs, she says, comes from audience members asking what they should do, how they should behave, in the current mendacious political climate. Who is Katharine Gun's Husband? Where is Katharine Gun Now? I mean, I literallyI couldnt eat. Iraq war whistleblower Katharine Gun: Truth always matters. Yes and no. Shes just wearing her jeans and jumpers, you know, to work. First day, what did you feel? I thought you said youre sick. And I said, I need to talk to you. And so we went into a small room, and I just said, I did it. And then she put her arm around me and went, Oh, Katharine. And then I burst out crying. So, Lord Goldsmith decides to prosecute Katharine Gun. So, from a dramatic point of view, you have someone whos just going to their job every day, as most of us do, happens to be a spy working for GCHQ, but could have been a person working for an accounting firm or Enron or Boeing or any other organization, who sees something that is simply wrong, sees, you know, and says, GAVIN HOOD: and says, Im going to speak up.. And they had already taken him down into the custody suite, which is, by the way, where I had been before, Gun revealed. Katharine Gun: The GCHQ whistleblower who tried to stop the Iraq War on Presumably the events mark a before and after in her life. Few are aware that her husband had also been thrown into troubled waters when Gun blew the lid off the alleged spy efforts in 2003. We were mostly in our mid-20s, so it was the usual stuff, who is going out with who. You know, I felt vindicated. Maybe there will be sympathy.. AMY GOODMAN: I mean, youre the guy who broke the story that showed that Britain was collaborating with the U.S. in trying to get dirt on U.S. ambassadors, AMY GOODMAN: to get them to vote for the war in Iraq, which ended up killingwhat do you say at the end of the film? Katharine Gun Husband: Learn Everything About Iraq War Whistleblower You know, my initial instinct was Ive got to remain anonymous. 'Official Secrets' sheds light on the story of U.K. whistleblower AMY GOODMAN: Well, explain that. So, you get this memo. This is viewer supported news. There are plenty of opportunities here for other journalists to take up the baton and find out what really happened. [16], Her husband, Yaar Gn,[17][18] is a Turkish Kurd. But, I mean, I ended up being a whistleblower myself within that organization. Thats [inaudible]. ED VULLIAMY: Yes. Shes pregnant. KATHARINE GUN: Oh, yeah. [5], Gun graduated with an upper second-class degree, then took a job as an assistant English teacher with the JET program in Hiroshima, Japan. Full Interview: Frank Mugisha on New Anti-, Former Guantnamo Prisoners Ask Biden to Let Them Keep Art They Made to Escape Inhumane Conditions, Part 1: In 2003, This U.K. Whistleblower Almost Stopped the Iraq Invasion. When Katharine Gun came across a memo while working for the British government in 2003, her whole world changed. GAVIN HOOD: Ben Emmerson. (modern). British linguist, translator and whistleblower, This article is about the British whistleblower. Given my experience I would want to hear what happened from the horses mouth, I think.. KATHARINE GUN: to police custody, yes, and kept overnight in a police cell. She was arrested and charged with breach of the Official Secrets Act. AMY GOODMAN: Whatever you tried to do didnt succeed. The comedown after they dropped the case, and trying to recover from that, was quite stressful.. Shes ordinary. UPDATED with latest attendees, livestream link: President Joe Biden and First Lady Jill Biden, as well as Vice President Kamala Harris and Second Gentleman Doug Emhoff, will attend Saturday's . And all of a sudden his safe, you know, this civil servant wife is in a whole lot of bother that he never expected to have to deal with. And my husband was desperately worried about what was going on. Fox News' Kat Timpf Marries Cameron Friscia: See the Photos - People It was with the help of MP Nigel Jones that Gun finally managed to free Yasar, reasserting his right to stay in the UK. Youre the guy who got the goods on the author of the memo in the NSA, who wrote to GCHQ and said, Were going to bug the U.N. ambassadors.. For the American gamer, see, Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, United Nations Security Council and the Iraq War, "Whistleblowerin Katharine Gun - "Ich frchtete, sie knnten meine Gedanken lesen", "The US spymaster, the whistleblower, and the secret email she exposed", "Profile: Katherine Gun, Iraq war wistleblower", "Katharine Gun: Ten years on what happened to the woman who revealed dirty tricks on the UN Iraq war vote? We met in London. I wanted to stop bombs dropping on Iraq., The consequences have been damaging not just for Guns career. You work for the British government, her interrogator said, with a sneer. Im going, No, II dont. He said, Just google Katharine Gun and official secrets. So I googled official secrets Katharine Gun, becausethe title of our film comes from the Official Secrets Act, which is what she breached when she leaked the memo. Youre a bit, AMY GOODMAN: So, there is an uproar. Your defense becomes: It was necessary to break the law in order to achieve a higher purpose, which is the saving of human life. Macdonald stated that Gun would not have received a fair trial without the disclosure of information that would have compromised national security. MARTIN BRIGHT: Well, I mean, I think at that time, you knowwe knew, I suppose, by that point, that our paths were destined to cross. Katharine Gun: Ten years on what happened to the woman who revealed She was the real-life translator who photocopied . I was teaching Mandarin in the local college in Cheltenham. Ben Emmerson decides the way to defend Katharine Gun is to ask for Lord Goldsmiths documents. That whole period undermined the judicial process, it undermined the parliamentary process, and it undermined the media and press and the intelligence service. We are all of us living, she believes, with the consequences of that. And I can remember sitting back and thinking, This guy is not all there. But you areis this part of the film true, where you have the authorities come in and say, Were questioning everyone, because someone here did this.. AMY GOODMAN: You mean period dramas of strong women have to be a hundred years ago. The classified email Gun got leaked to The Observer was evidence of the clandestine attempt of the American intelligence to reportedly seek help from the UK in wiretapping the members of the UN Security Council to motivate them to vote in favor of the invasion of Iraq. All rights reserved. Katherine Johnson husband, James Francis Goble died, Family, Nasa,Died [5], On 13 November 2003, Gun was charged with an offence under section 1 of the Official Secrets Act 1989. Of course he does. You know, youre not waiting for someone for hours in makeup. And also, I didnt want to even risk having a criminal record. Gun owned up to the leak a few days later to save her GCHQ colleagues from a witch-hunt. AMY GOODMAN: The horror of what you did not succeed in preventing, though, which was the deaths of so many in Iraq, and that continues today, but you certainly touched the conscience of not just the nation, but the world, in what you did, talking about what womanwhat one woman could do. How often does she go through that fateful weekend, where she wrestled with her conscience after seeing the memo? So, where is Gun now? Following the dropping of the case, Liberty commented, "One wonders whether disclosure in this criminal trial might have been a little too embarrassing. Yes. Katharine Gun, a shy and studious 28-year-old who spent her days listening in to obscure Chinese intercepts, decided to tell the world about a secret plan by the US government to spy on the United Nations.. She had received an email in her inbox asking her and . [13] Speculation was rife in the media that the prosecution service had bowed to political pressure to drop the case so that any such documents would remain secret. AMY GOODMAN: The San Francisco Film Festival. Just occasionally Gun is invited to speak at conferences organised by the likes of accuracy.org or VIPS (the Veterans Intelligence Professionals for Sanity). Gun had given a copy of the memo, with no supporting verification, to a friend of a friend who eventually brought it to the Observers investigative reporter Martin Bright. Its millions. And I went back, and I felt worse that day at home. And they say, Were not even going to vote on this resolution. And the next day, we invade. Don't let 'the intelligence and the facts be fixed around the policy' this time. Does he try to treat it? ED VULLIAMY: At the time, yes, the editor and the political. So, you are there standing alone in the dock. Official Secrets is based on the actions of Brit Katharine Gun, who revealed that America had been eavesdropping on diplomats from other countries. Mary Katharine Ham - Smart Women Smart Money Magazine As well as illuminating Guns story, though, the film gives what was, by any standards, one of the great scoops of recent British journalism the credit that is long overdue. Gavin Hoods 2019 film Official Secrets is the thrilling political drama that explores the events that followed British linguist Guns 2003 media leak.
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